Curse

Enigmatics · Jul 20, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Guys, if you wanted a max dps warrior axe build, you should've gone ranger primary for expertise and spam 3 or 4 attack skills with level 9 TF, or gone with a flourish build.

Scaphism · Jul 20, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Amen Tigris.
If you get focused with Frenzy up, you can't afford to "wait til the duration runs out" (which is 8 seconds).
Cancel it with another stance immediately.
Sprint is the best candidate for two reasons:
1) It's likely to be on your bar as a warrior (who doesn't need sprint?)
2) Run away from danger.

Enigmatics · Jul 20, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Ahh, I was forgetting about stances not being able to stack. I suppose that successfully reduces chances of being attacked with frenzy on.

UberRusty · Jul 20, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Battle Rage > Frenzy. Unless you like spamming Cleave, which isn't THAT good of a skill compared to Battle Rage. All depends on the situation, I know, but I've played an Axe Spiker (among many other chars) for quite a while and for PvP Battle Rage > Cleave for an elite.

It's your skills that count, not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers.

RukusTrueshott · Jul 20, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

Battle Rage > Frenzy. Unless you like spamming Cleave, which isn't THAT good of a skill compared to Battle Rage. All depends on the situation, I know, but I've played an Axe Spiker (among many other chars) for quite a while and for PvP Battle Rage > Cleave for an elite.

It's your skills that count, not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers.

Sometimes the spam works better, it's really dependent on who you're hitting.

RukusTrueshott · Jul 20, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatics

Guys, if you wanted a max dps warrior axe build, you should've gone ranger primary for expertise and spam 3 or 4 attack skills with level 9 TF, or gone with a flourish build.

No str no crits.. am I right? Never tried a r/w - w/r build.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RukusTrueshott

No str no crits.. am I right? Never tried a r/w - w/r build.

No strength, no AP on attack skills.

First of all, he should be using Eviscerate instead of Cleave. And if you're timing your damage, you don't want Battle Rage. And "It's your skills that count, not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers." The skill gives 33% inscreased sttack speed? Battle Rage doesn't make sense with that sentence at all, if that sentence does make sense.

Frenzy
Disrupting Chop
Eviscerate
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Conjure Frost
Ressurection Signet
Sprint

...will work fine if you really want to use Water. Or you could use Smiting as a monk, and use Strength of Honor, maybe Judge's Insight. If in an eight team, I'd just drop the Signet and carry Bull's Strike or something.

EDIT: Ok, UberRusty, you said with Frenzy he's just doing small double-digit numbers in a short time. Last time I checked, getting double adrenaline does not make each hit more potent. What it will do, is allow you to get more skills out. You might want that, but I'd rather do all my damage in a very small time frame (which Frenzy allows you to do) and give the monk less time to heal. Battle Rage makes you lose all adrenaline when it ends, and the last thing I want is to try to unload my damage at the same time as my teammates, only to lose my adrenaline as I get to the target.

UberRusty · Jul 20, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

First of all, he should be using Eviscerate instead of Cleave. And if you're timing your damage, you don't want Battle Rage. And "It's your skills that count, not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers." The skill gives 33% inscreased sttack speed? Battle Rage doesn't make sense with that sentence at all, if that sentence does make sense.

Read again and try to clear your ego a bit with some Green Tea.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

Battle Rage > Frenzy. Unless you like spamming Cleave, which isn't THAT good of a skill compared to Battle Rage. All depends on the situation, I know, but I've played an Axe Spiker (among many other chars) for quite a while and for PvP Battle Rage > Cleave for an elite.

It's your skills that count, not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers.

"It's your skills that count..." = I agree so far, skills are definitely more important than items.
"...not that measly +13 dmg from Conjure Frost or a 33% increase of attack speed that lets you do low double digit numbers." = I guess Frenzy and Conjure Frost aren't skills anymore.

And I'll take a Coke, thanks.

EDIT: If you think about it, the mechanics of Cleave and Battle Rage are pretty similiar. Cleave is designed to produce decent damage from skills over a consistent period of time, because it has a short recharge. It averages out to add about 5 damage to every hit you do, if you are consistently using it. Battle Rage effectively halfs the recharge, so let's say you're mainly using Executioner's Strike with it. You're adding about 8 damage to every hit over the duration of Battle Rage.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 20, 2005, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

Rofl liek omg, u must be veri slow in attacking becuz like omg i get 2 aldrenile per hit lololool liek omg u must relly suk at using skills rofl omg liek kolololo!

I'd have to side with UberRusty on this one. Battle Rage has an automated sprint built into it which can be kept up indefinitely. All of your adrenaline requirements get chopped in half vs. the Frenzy's 1/3. Therefore, you end up using Executioner's Strike with the swings of Cleave. What's more, since it's Double Adrenaline, your adrenaline drain from using one adrenal skill won't affect the others much since you're still gaining adrenaline x2.

No way would I put Frenzy over Battle Rage just because I can totally smash my foes using Swift Chop, Penetrating Blow, Executioner's Strike, and Disrupting Chop sooner than a Frenzy build would. I also don't have to worry about foes running or double damage in my face because I'm already sprint buffed AND don't eat double damage.

For anyone to say Frenzy is Godlike compared to Battle Rage is truely beyond my understanding. There's just too much to like about Battle Rage.

Some people may forget, that if the enemy is running and you can't get your adrenaline up due to distance, just use a wand and shoot them 4 times lol...

When it's full, switch to a melee weapon and pwn them.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Some people may forget, that if the enemy is running and you can't get your adrenaline up due to distance, just use a wand and shoot them 4 times lol...

Bull's Strike ftw?

UberRusty · Jul 20, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

EDIT: If you think about it, the mechanics of Cleave and Battle Rage are pretty similiar. Cleave is designed to produce decent damage from skills over a consistent period of time, because it has a short recharge. It averages out to add about 5 damage to every hit you do, if you are consistently using it. Battle Rage effectively halfs the recharge, so let's say you're mainly using Executioner's Strike with it. You're adding about 8 damage to every hit over the duration of Battle Rage.

But the thing is, you get the 25% speed boost ALONG with double aldrenaline. No need to Rush/Sprint then Frenzy again. Frenzy is great, but BA is better for aldrenaline gain.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

That was just me comparing Cleave and Battle Rage.

Yes, Frenzy can be used for gaining adrenaline. And yes, Battle Rage kicks it's ass in that. But where Frenzy truly shines if when you are spiking. Instead of using your 4 skills in a span of 5 seconds, you're putting it out in 3.5 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derrtyboy69

I would have used water trident to knock down running casters, but cleave took up my elite spot, so i cripple. Since cripple is easily removed, i was wondering if there was a skill i could use like gale or water trident, but doesnt cause exhaustion and isnt elite

Yes, it's called Bull's Strike. It's not a cripple, but Sprint + Bull's Strike is a caught caster knocked on the ground. And since you're going for total damage, get Axe upto 12+4, and just balance Strength and Water once you've done that. Use the "Icy" prefix when using Conjure, and then use "Zealous" for the times you're not. If you're not going to go "Of Enchanting," then go "Of Defense."

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

Rofl liek omg, u must be veri slow in attacking becuz like omg i get 2 aldrenile per hit lololool liek omg u must relly suk at using skills rofl omg liek kolololo!

Read again and try to clear your ego a bit with some Green Tea.

No green tea for you?

Zeru · Jul 20, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Battlerage is a solid skill for sword warriors (I completely forgot about BRs 25% movement boost, my apologies here).

Hammer wars want either Backbreaker or Devastating Hammer depending on their setup. Axe warriors want either cleave or eviscerate.

Battle Rage does not make up for any of those 4 elites in a hammer or axe build, partially because those elites are extremely good and partially because you can't stack stances. It works with sword well though because 100 blades is not that good. The fact is, Frenzy is +50% attack power/adren gain and judicious use of this will increase your adrenaline and attack power due to more attacks, whereas BR only increases the former. Versus newb tombs/gvg teams, you can run frenzy almost constantly and never have to worry. Versus good teams you are going to have to pay attention and may need to switch to an off target to use frenzy (i,e a ranger) so that it won't be noticed while you adren build.

UberRusty · Jul 21, 2005, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Battle Rage does not make up for any of those 4 elites in a hammer or axe build, partially because those elites are extremely good and partially because you can't stack stances.

Actually when I play an Axe Spiker in Tombs, it does. I wouldn't use Battle Rage for Hammers though, but for Axes it is not a bad skill at all. Cleave is NOT that useful compared to BR, there are other skills to spam along without Frenzy. Oh, smiting groups = Frenzy disabled.

Deathlord · Jul 21, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

I capped battle rage in hopes of using it often, unfortunately I never found myself doing it. I admired cleave and for me, battle rage wasn't exactly my cup of tea :\. Everytime you recast it you lose all adreniline. If you don't recast it, then you still lose all adreniline. However, with all this discussion about how incredibly great it is, i might just replace flurry and cleave with it and stick in exec strike.

Zeru · Jul 21, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Frankly if you want to spike with your warrior you are taking frenzy or you have no idea what your doing.

Warrior spiking=unloading a lot of adrenal skills in a very short time. For this to work you need to have the shortest attack time possible and 1 attack every 8/9ths of a second is much better than 1 attack every 4/3rds of a second.

Battle Rage is one of the worst skills to unload a huge amount of adrenaline with, as you are playng a very big gamble that the opportunity to adren spike will present itself before BR runs out. Timing is essential for unloading adren and Battle Rage is not friendly in that respect.

RukusTrueshott · Jul 21, 2005, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Most people who are singing rages praises haven't tried this build or never have played a war.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 21, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Frankly if you want to spike with your warrior you are taking frenzy or you have no idea what your doing.

Warrior spiking=unloading a lot of adrenal skills in a very short time. For this to work you need to have the shortest attack time possible and 1 attack every 8/9ths of a second is much better than 1 attack every 4/3rds of a second.

Battle Rage is one of the worst skills to unload a huge amount of adrenaline with, as you are playng a very big gamble that the opportunity to adren spike will present itself before BR runs out. Timing is essential for unloading adren and Battle Rage is not friendly in that respect.

Exactly what I've been saying. I like Battle Rage, but to say it's a better stance for a warrior SPIKER than Frenzy is ridiculous. Frenzy allows you to get damage out fast. Battle Rage allows you to put out consistent damage. Last time I checked, a spiker goes with the first option.

UberRusty · Jul 21, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Frankly if you want to spike with your warrior you are taking frenzy or you have no idea what your doing.

Warrior spiking=unloading a lot of adrenal skills in a very short time. For this to work you need to have the shortest attack time possible and 1 attack every 8/9ths of a second is much better than 1 attack every 4/3rds of a second.

You just contradicted yourself. You get more aldrenaline using Battle Rage than Frenzy. Battle Rage lasts 16 seconds. And if the target runs, you will catch up to it unless you are snared/blinded etc. But if you're snared or blinded, you're just a HP counter.

We need to meet in arena at least once with my Axe Spiker and YOUR Axe Spiker.

Quote:

Most people who are singing rages praises haven't tried this build or never have played a war.

Wrong. Only two people have sang praises about BR in this thread are me and Yukito. And last time I checked, we both played Warriors. Unless I suddenly got hit by a truck or a green tea ice cream monster or some such, we still play Warriors and we know what we're talking about.